Category: Dating and Relationships
OK gang, just want to hear your experiences.
how do I politely inform a friend that I am aware she is pulling wool over my eyes and has done from the start? Is there indeed a way?
I do like this friend a lot but I don't trust her. I didn't think this was possible, but I guess it is. Lol
Wow. This topic is close to home, hearth, and heart.
Friend, or date/lover, you have to wonder why people have the need to do this?
I mean, you are supposed to be close, right?
If they don’t wish you to know something, doesn’t it seem simple not to say at all?
I figured it was best to sit a friend/lover down and have that heart to heart talk where you say “I like/love you, and you really don’t need to do this.”
It didn’t work, and I tried more than once. They said they’d change, but didn’t.
I agree it is difficult, or impossible to trust them after it goes on for a while.
My experience has shown, there is no polite, effective, or reasonable way.
It seems a liar is a liar, and some people just can’t help themselves.
Maybe, and this is a maybe, you allow that your friend has a lying disability.
If you stay in the relationship, you accept this and you learn to weed out the truth.
Maybe, you don’t get in to situations were trust is important with that person.
That kills the lover relationship, but a friend could be managed I guess.
Just some thoughts.
I'm not really sure I coud deal with a friend that I can't trust.
If you know for a fact that the friend is lying to you, and you still keep the person around, that's your choice, so the blame is equal. I know what you mean, though. When you care about someone, you want to see the best in them, you hope they'll change and they'll give the friendship the same importance that you do. sadly, there are those who just don't think this way and are only out for what they can get. If you've got proof of something wrong that they've told you, confront them, and let them know that this is just the provable aspect, and that you're sure that there are other lies involved as well. Give them the choice. Tell them that if they keep it up, you'll have no choice but to terminate the friendship. Now they can choose either to keep lying to you, or keep you as a friend. Maybe I'm wrong for this part, but if they agree not to lie to you anymore, and you find that they've done it yet again, they're not worth any more words. they made their choice.
If someone is untrustworthy for any reason (like in this case where a friend lied to you) he/she is not worth your time anymore. Cause in my opinion, she/he has proven where they stand already; they clearly don't value the friendship the same way you do. Of course it's ultimately your decision, but those are my thoughts.
Actually, I'll give you a recent example in my own life, in hopes it might be of some help to you: I have this friend who has recently shown me that she doesn't like the fact I'm unafraid to show the different emotions I experience. She said to me "Are you being impatient? Please don't be because you're one of the most upbeat people." I responded with something to the effect of "So I'm not entitled, in your mind, to be honest when I'm having a bad time of things?" Needless to say, things have changed between us now, because she changed from wanting me to be honest with her, to getting mad when I was honest with her.
So, I say all that to say best of luck to you. I can imagine it isn't easy.
This situation has happened to me many times for whatever reason.
If it is a new friend, cutting them off is easy.
Older friend, or family, or loved ones?
I mean people you really enjoy otherwise accept for the lies, are hard.
My soft heart gets in the way, and on a couple times, it took me a long time to give up on them.
Sure, it is for the better, but it was difficult, because I was hopeful they'd stop.
Never happened though.
A liar, just like an addict, will not change, till they see it's offending those he/she cares to keep around. When they start losing friends, is when they finally wise up. Personal experience has led me to my opinion. The lying, just like a drug, needs confrontation. When they hurt, that's when the lying stops.
God Bless,
Sarah
Thanks so very much all for your feedback. I value and appreciate each and every contribution.
Anthony, I hear what you say,and I believe I have just literally ridden off a friendship. She kept on saying how much of a good friend I was but it seemed she was lying about everything.
I'm of course sad but I'll get over it; will probably feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulder in the end.
Thanks again all; I guess I just need to hear it from other people even though, as I said in my original post, I really really thought a lot of her.
Rachael, just to identify with what you're saying: I really thought a lot of the friend I mentioned above as well, but at the same time, we have to look out for ourselves. If people aren't uplifting us/supportive of us, then we should probably reevaluate our "friendship."
I guess for me the situation isn’t entirely clear. How did this friend pull the wool over your eyes? It’s never really stated. This is fine if the matter is so personal to you that you feel you can’t fully explain it, but the question still arises. Because there are lies and then there are lies. And sometimes it’s a matter of interpretation. Arguably you can lie without even saying anything, and that’s also a matter of interpretation. Let’s say you’re friends with someone who can really play the piano. It so happens you’re looking for a piano player for your band. You’ve never heard this friend of yours play piano, and he or she has never even mentioned it to you. Let’s say your friend has heard you talk about your band and how you really, really need a good piano player to round things out because you wanna take things to the next level, get a recording contract, whatever. Yet the friend still doesn’t say anything to you even though he or she knows you really, really need someone. Maybe this friend knows they could fit the bill entirely, but maybe he or she is too shy, or doesn’t want to join a band or whatever. You’re still oblivious of the fact that your friend plays the piano until, maybe one day you’re walking through the fine arts building of your college and you happen to hear this person playing the piano, and it sounds really, really good. Somehow you learn that it’s your friend who’s playing the piano. You never knew it before now, even though you know you’ve talked of needing this piano player for your band. Has the friend pulled the wool over your eyes? Is it a big thing or a little thing to you? Was it a lie even though the friend never said anything to you? Is it really any of your business that this friend can play the piano and doesn’t want anyone to know? See, I’m just pulling things out of thin air to hopefully make a point that there isn’t enough of an explanation here.
Interesting point.
Lying is lying; there is no two ways about it. It seems the real issue here, is that some people might not care if they're lied to, perhaps cause they're liars themselves. So, then, why would lying be a big deal? Everyone does it, right? Just some food for thought.
Depends on why and the value of the lie.
I've had friends totally lie about their life, beliefs, and such.
Example, a person tells you they are Atheist when in fact there not.
You base your friendship on that value, but later you learn they've been lying to you the complete time.
Now, how can you trust that friend if they now tell you, something else major?
You can never know, so if you contimue the friendship, you have to accept what they tell you with reservations.
Until you ssee it for yourself, or have proof, what they say can't matter.
You have to guard yourself and your feelings.
So, that person isn't really a friend, just someone you know.
It gets worse then that, especially when you have to trust what they say and count on it.
You really can't.
I forgot to say, in the John D's point, the friend never lied, they simply never said, so that isn't technically a lie, is it?
It is far better to not know then to be told something not true.
A person you know, not really a friend. Chew on that. Good point, Forereel.
That sums up a woman I've called a friend now for about 15 years. She isn't someone who is local and who I count on for anything that matters greatly, and I'm guarded in what I talk to her about, and that saddens me. It's not anything worth confronting her with, because she could just deny whatever I say, and I have no way of refuting her. I just hate knowing this person thinks I'm so unaware that she can lie to me, and I'll accept it and believe her. She's a person who thrives on drama, and I'm just the opposite, so aside from a few insensitive remarks directed at me, personally, I think just to see what reaction she'd get, her fibs are typically about her own personal situations and relationships. It doesn't affect me beyond knowing I'll never quite trust her. I don't really know why I bother staying in touch with her.
I would agree with some of you who say to drop the friend, and generally, you're right, but sometimes, if you're feeling a bit low yourself, or short of other companions, it's easier to let things coast along.
According to one school of thought, it’s a lie if the friend knew you wanted a piano player because you’ve been talking about it for months and months at a time,and never said anything. It’s a lie of omission. The question that always arises with any lie is how that lie might have affected you. If you thought you had a close enough friendship, maybe you’re gunna feel pretty hurt and betrayed that this friend didn’t tell you of the talent they had, especially if they were that good and were the best piano player for 100 miles around. Your inability to find someone else who could play in the style you wanted and with the same talent might spell the difference between your band hitting it big, getting a recording contract and being the best thing since the Beatles or something and being just another bar band that never mmade it that far out of the town you call home. Your friendship is effectively destroyed because your friend’s lie of omission ruined your dreams of fame and fortune. But then, turn this lie of omission on its head by finding another exact piano player that fit the bill. Maybe you find that same kind of musician, let’s say, a month before you heard your friend playing in the music room at this fine arts building. Then your reaction might be perhaps a little hurt or bewildered, but maybe you’d be like: “Hey, George, why didn’t you ever tell me you could play like that? You could’ve been a part of our band. Now we got Sam to play with us, and we can’t fire him. Too bad, because we just got a recording contract.” George might respond with something like: “Yeah, I knew you wanted a piano player, but I was hoping you wouldn’t find out because I really hate playing in front of crowds. I got stage fright, and the more nervous I get, the more I drink, and the more I drink, the worse my temper gets. So,, that’s why I didn’t say anything.” In that instance, you found out the truth. But you did find out that in effect George was lying to you in the first place by not revealing his talent.
And sometimes the truth may ultimately do more harm than good. Suppose you’re married to someone and you really don’t care for your spouse’s mother. Your spouse knows this because you haven’t mmade much of a secret of it, but you tolerate the mother because you love your spouse. Meannwhile, the mother knows nothing of your real feelings because you’ve done such a good job of hiding them from her that she thinks you don’t have any problems with her. You and your spouse know how you really feel, but you’re not honest with the mother because (a) you want to keep your relationship with your spouse, and (b) deep down, you really don’t want to hurt the mother either. But maybe she does something that really, really gets on your nerves one day and you fly off the handle. You’re honest for the first time in your relationship with her. You tell her you think she’s the mmost annoying person in the world the way she does blah blah blah, and the way she wears her hair, and the way she can’t seem to dress as stylishly as you think she should, and on and on and on. Now she knows how you really feel. You’ve been honest and you haven’t lied about it. You’ve destroyed whatever relationship you’ve had with her, false as it might’ve been, and you’ve destroyed your relationship with your spouse. Don’t you feel a lot better now?
Ah, but that piano player wasn't responsible for you failing.
They didn't say for a valid reason.
Would you call it a lie because they didn't want to go in to a life of drinking just so you could make it and they'd become a drunk?
If they'd told you the truth, but refused to help you get that contract what now?
I still say saying nothing isn't a lie. Lying outright harms even the most casual relationship many times.
I’ll have to concede that you’re right that in most instances outright lying does hurt relationships. I just argue with the term “Pulling the wool over your eyes.” In my example of the piano player, I’d still submit that if the piano player knew you needed him to be in your band and he was the only one of his talent within a thousand miles, never told you he played and then you found out that he did play, it’s a lie of omission if he knew how great your need was. In that instance I’d honestly feel the wool had been pulled over my eyes, and that on at least an emotional level, his failure to help made the difference in my band’s success or failure. Maybe I’d feel differently if I knew the whole truth – that he’d been in the band scene at one time, discovered he had stage fright and that he used drinking to solve the problem, which led to other problems. Then I might feel the friendship could be saved. But I still say that honesty isn’t always, 100 percent of the time, the best policy. In my example of the spouse and the mother-in-law, you’re probably better off never telling the mother-in-law how you really feel about her. It’d be the truth, but that truth could potentially damage two relationships. In the case of the OP, I’m not sure we really know enough about the situation; that’s the only thing I’m saying. Was the pulling of the wool over the eyes a matter of not revealing something the OP thinks should have been revealed, or was it a serious outright lie that should have made a difference in their relationship? It simply led to pondering and thinking, which is what I naturally do.
Johndy, you seem to be unclear of the difference between withholding information from someone, and flat out lying to someone. The examples you gave are about withholding information from someone because of a truth a person knows about themselves that they know would hurt others and possibly destroy people's lives. There is a difference between that sort of thing, and flat out lying.
Flat out lying is when you say one thing, but mean another.
We're all guilty of lying at some point in our lives, but most of us grow out of it because we know it's wrong.
As I said, outright lying is most often harmful to relationships. I conceded that. But some people would call withholding information lying by omission. You don’t have to agree with it, but there it is. Either is a form of dishonesty, and depending on the situation, either can be destructive. And either outright lying or withholding information is a form of pulling the wool over someone’s eyes. Take this destructive example: If you are a prosecutor and really want to see someone convicted of murder but you know you have evidence that you should submit to the defense that would exonerate that person, evidence that you’re legally compelled to submit, and yet you still withhold that evidence, you have lied by omission.. If you’re not found out, that lie by omission will sentence that person to life in prison, or possibly to death. You didn’t outright lie, but you pulled the wool over the eyes of the jury and judge by saying nothing. Yet the evidence you submitted to convict this person was false. It was a lie. You knew it was false; therefore,, you knew it was a lie. You lied by withholding evidence that could exonerate an innocent person. I’d call that a lie by omission. Unfortunately it's done all the time.
Yes, it is done all the time.
I'd agree a constructive lie and one that isn't are different.
I'm interested in the posters answer to your first post however.
Um, what is a constructive lie?
If a so called friend is drawn to drama and wants you to come along fore the ride, are they really a friend? Seriously, why specific people want to migrate to drama I'll never under stand. My point is simple, if you want a drama free life then learn to cut people out of your life who bring drama.
Like that lie you never told your mother in law.
You say it is lying not to tell her she gets on your nerves, so that is constructive.
Helpful.
Might keep you alive, happily hitched, and healthy.
But Wayne, who is to say that is even a lie? You aren't lying if you don't say anything.
Starfly is right though: if you know someone is all about drama, and that isn't your thing, why call them a friend in the first place? Clearly, they're just stringing you along for the ride.
Ah. Now I understand. It's still a form of dishonesty; and in its way it's a lie, because you can lie by action and not just by words alone. Which you call it constructive because it's helpful, and as lies go,, does no harm so long as you're not honest about your feelings. But then,there is harmful lying versus harmless lying, or harmful dishonesty versus harmful honesty. Harmful dishonesty goes back to the prosecuting attorney I spoke about earlier on. By withholding evidence of the innocence of a person charged unjustly with murder, the prosecutor is guilty of lying by omission. He didn't verbally say anything, but the evidence he submitted to convict that person unlawfully was a lie. He submitted that false evidence, therefore he lied.
In that case it is different.
He actually had something and knew it.
Not telling your mother in law isn't something you have.
I guess I'd write this down to something you have and something you feel.
You can't lie if you never say a feeling. A feeling could actually change couldn't it?
I still stand on if you don't say, you've not lied.
This is not a situation were it is your responsibility to submit all you know.
No, not telling your mother-in-law how you really feel isn’t a lie unless you’ve told her how you don’t really feel. In that case, it’s an overt lie to tell her the sun rises and sets on her, but you really think she’s a flaming bitch. Not saying anything at all and not really showing her how you really feel isn’t really dishonesty. Treating her as though you care more than you do when you think she’s a flaming bitch is a form of dishonesty, though I have to admit that in that case, it’s not a lie in the truest sense of the word. But I still stand by my point that there are ways in which your actions can create a false impression; hence, your actions are a covert lie. My best example thus far is the prosecuting attorney. I still think withholding evidence is a form of lying. At the very least it’s a form of dishonesty, even if you disagree that his actions, not being verbal, aren’t a lie.
But I also stand by one of my original points that there are lies, and then there are lies. Many, many lies are destructive. Many of them are of the how important can it be variety. If I told you that I liked chocolate ice-cream and yet every time you happen to see mme order ice-cream I order vanilla ice-cream, you might think I was lying. But then, maybe you’d be like, okay, that’s a little strange, but it’s nothing to quibble over or end a friendship over. But either I was lying about the chocolate ice-cream or it just so happened that every time you’ve seen me order ice-cream, I ordered vanilla, and maybe it’s a coincidence until the one time you saw me ordering chocolate. I know it probably sounds trivial, but here we have a posting in which the OP states that her friend pulled the woll over her eyes and she’s known it for some time. It’s okay to confront that friend, but then we never really know whether the friend was being dishonest through her actions or told the OP a lie outright. And in either event, was the dishonest act or lie a major thing, or was it trivial in nature? How is anyone to know or render an opinion when nothing more has been stated than a friend pulled the wool over mmy eyes?
Thanks Chels, yes, a lie is a lie.
This person would frequently telling me something and then going back and doing the complete opposite.
She is also one of those people who bitches to everyone about the other behind their back.
Yep. Liar.
You don't need toxic people and relationships like that one. Just tell her flat-out that she's a liar, giving examples of what she has done to earn such a label, and if she can't handle the truth, that's entirely her problem.
I will be doing just that on the weekend. Over and out with her. :(
And when someone talks to you about someone else behind their back, you know this person talks about you to other people behind your back.
I would concur with the last couple postings now that I know a little bit more. Hope you don't think I was being too persnickety or whatever; didn't mean to do that. But the topic of honesty, how honest we should or can be, etc., is sometimes intriguing actually.
Glad to hear you won't be putting up with that anymore, Rachael. It's a waste of everyone's time, including yours.
I enjoyed the question that was brought up.
It's a fair question.
My opinion? We get ourselves into these situations without thinking. Everybody slips, most of us understand that and so we will allow stuff and only notice when things have really gotten carried away. That's how I really believe this happens more often than not. Speaking for myself, I have found myself in the situation you have found yourself in.
Feel no shame for it, no matter what society tries to pin on you. What the answer is, I am not completely clear upon. But good advice has been put forth here.
Thanks Leo; I agree with you. :)